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Question & Answer
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Illegal or Legal Election?
August 12, 2007
By
JW California
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Hi Allie:
The short answer is that you can get recommendations from ECHO or anyone else concerning insurance coverage, brokers, and carriers. Yes, all the insurance packages are going up in cost. For that matter there are certain coverages that are not even available any longer.
A lot of people on this forum will tell you not to go to Executive Council of Homeowners - ECHO, Community Associations Instiitute - CAI, or California Association of Community Managers - CACM for recommendations because these organizations are part of the "evil HOA racket."
My opinion is that organizations are not evil, people are evil. You will find good and bad people in every organization. Saying everyone in CAI is evil is like saying all lawyers are evil because they belong to the bar association. There are good and bad lawyers just as there are good and bad people in CAI/CACM/ECHO.
Hope this helps.
Thanks,
Bill Mills
Service 1st Mediation & Ombudsman Services
San Clemente, CA
AHRC Response
Bill Mills:
Your logic on organizations is wrong. By your logic the Klu Klux Clan , the SS and the Gestapo are not evil organizations.
Clearly all organizations can be evil.
Community Associations Instiitute - CAI. California Association of Community Managers - CACM and Executive Council of Homeowners - ECHO are evil organizations because they wrote,the unconstutional laws and live off them. They enslaved 55 million Americans in housing gulags, deprived them of their human rights and property rights and created the litigation foreclosure floods sweeping America.
AHRC Staff
Posted Nov 19 2007 10:34PM CET
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Bill Mills
(View Profile)
San clemente, California |
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I am on the Board of Directors of our HOA. Recently our Umbrella ( Exterior Insurance company's underwriters)want to drop us as an insured client due to the high percentage(loss ratio)with respect to the high claims.
What if there are no insurance companies who want to cover us?
Can you recommend insurance companies without us having to pay exorbitant premiums? (We have many senior citizen home owners on fixed incomes.)
Also, is ECHO allowed to provide me a list of insurance carriers?
Thanks,
A. Katz
Posted Nov 10 2007 1:18AM CET
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Allie Katz
(View Profile)
, California |
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The short answer is no, that's not a legal election.
The state of California has changed the election rules in the Stirling Davis Act. There are strict procedures to be followed by the board and it needs to be monitored by a good HOA lawyer. It sounds like your board thinks it can get away with the things the way they are because your homeowners don't know the rules.
I am a bookeeper and I work with small, self-managed HOAs. I'm always dismayed at my board members' indifference to understanding their financial situation and understanding the financial reports I give them. Just because you have a bookkeeper doesn't mean you don't need to know what she/he is doing. My favorite boards are the ones who call to ask questions, and make me earn my money.
I also live in a Condominium Association and am the president of my board. I got on the board in order to kick out a corrupt management company. It can be done, but it takes diplomacy and strategy. Start to ask questions, talk to your neighbors, see what they think of the situation. Then, when you are in charge, make sure that the membership is kept aware of what's going on. That's the best way to get them to buy into what you're doing.
JRO
Posted Oct 10 2007 10:26PM CEST
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Username withheld
San Jose, California |
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Dear North Carolina,
There are good and bad HOA's just like there is good and bad everything else. There are a lot of things wrong with the HOA laws in California, but some of that is being changed. The elections laws are one of the changes.
Yes, I agree with you. I'm glad I don't live in your old HOA. However, there are exceptions, and I now live in one of them. Is everybody happy with our HOA? No way! But I would have to guess that 95% of our owners are happy. They're especially happy because our property values went up over 180% in the four years it took to clean up our association. The surrounding houses in other associations only went up about 80%. This was all done while our association dues were actually lowered by $20 per month. It just goes to show you what good management can do.
I also agree with you on your comments concerning painting your house. If you don't want to have someone telling you what you can and can not do, then don't buy in a HOA. That's what I did when I lived in Odessa, TX. There was no HOA, and my next door neighbor had a pick-up truck in his front yard for three (3) years while he restored it. I didn't mind him restoring the pick-up. I just minded having to see his trashy front yard for three years. When I sold that house I probably lost $10,000 on a $100,000 house because of the neighborhood. I no longer have that problem where I live.
As I said, there is good and bad in everything. I'm sorry that you've had to put up with the bad. My choice has been to try and change things from the inside by getting involved. That's why I became a mediator and a HOA activist. I am very pro-homeowner. That doesn't mean that everybody in my HOA likes me. There are 5 people out of 575 that I can't talk with, but I don't think that's a bad batting average. When you treat your neighbors like neighbors, things are bound to get better.
Thanks,
Bill Mills
Service 1st Mediation & Ombudsman Services
San Clemente, CA
Posted Sep 11 2007 1:00AM CEST
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Bill Mills
(View Profile)
San clemente, California |
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Bill,
that sounds like a very nice way of doing things, but in a corrupt HOA like the one that I am in votes simular to the ones that were on the post card is what happened in my HOA.
We got a letter stating that there was to be a vote, no canidates, just a vote. Once we got to the meeting the 'temporary president' stood up and said the previous president resigned and she was going to count all the member. After a few moments of counted she conculded that there was not enough for a quorum, and by the broad rules of the By-laws she was now assiging herself the president and she would appoint the new board. Then she stated that seeing there is no quarum she 'voted' on her behalf to 'appointed' the board every year and change the by-laws when she got around to it.
She also decided that a special assessment was needed, and she called the board together and they voted on it. There was only 3 memebers to the board. 2/3 vote won, and every townhome had to pay a $900.00 special assessment. (97 of the 312 homes)
I started a law suit and it took 12 lawyers to finally find one that would sue for 'fiduiary failure' but, there is no money. It was all 'used' for various reasons by the previous board, and my lawyer said if I sued I would and have to pay $15000 for him, and I would only win a judgement at the best, and all that is a waste of time and money.
So I took my case to the News Channels, after 3 months the HOA replied to the news channels with 'fake/ made up" checks and invoices on work that was never done, and the News channel said they could not help me.
Even the insurance company thae covers the HOA had 6 claims in 5 months on homes that were not maintianed and leaking from roof and siding damage. The response was 'We have no money, we will get to it when we can'.
I would suggest to anyone that if you are buying a home in an area that has a HOA, 'exclude the HOA' from the sale of the house. Most houses are deeded to the HOA. Just tell them that you will buy the house, with a VETO vote proxy non-revokable and that you will not be bound by the HOA. Or dont buy the house. You never see the HOA by-laws on the same page as the MLS listings. You are buying more then a home. You are buying politics in you own home.
Another suggestion is to have your real estate agent look up the BBB for the HOA, and see if there are any complaints or suits. If there are... Don't buy the house. You are buying more than a house.
Honestly, if you REALLY REALLY want to live in a HOA and be told to cut grass and pull your trash can up then buy the house. But I live in a free country. I want to paint my house what i feel to paint it, fly the flag when I want to, or even have a transparent basketball net in my drive way, and not need to pay someone the right so they can legal foreclose my house or fine me when they are not a goverment.
So, what to do.... I moved, and told the new owners 'nothing' seeing the HOA issues do not need to be disclosed. All I told them is the home page to the HOA, and that had a copy of the covents. In the state I am in, the By-laws are no required at closing, only the covents.
Posted Sep 4 2007 9:45PM CEST
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Username withheld
, North Carolina |
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There was no original ballot w/names. Only postcard w/no names. Results never advised to HOA. If there was a quorum, first time in over 15 years.
What steps can I take?
Posted Aug 14 2007 6:01AM CEST
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Username withheld
, California |
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Dear JW,
First, I am not a lawyer and I'm not giving you legal advice. I am a mediator who specializes in HOA problems and am sharing with you my knowledge of HOA law. Also, I am a consultant for a HOA election organization.
I'm taking you at your word or description. If you truly only received a card in the mail, then no, this was not a legal election. The State of California changed the HOA election laws as of July 1, 2006. Unfortunately, these laws apply to all HOA's whether there are 5 (ridiculous for 5) or 5,000 (very much needed for larger HOA's) members. I've provided several references for you to check out below. The main four pieces are:
• Enacting rules - Section 1357.120 - http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=03999723152+2+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
• Election process and procedures - Section 1363.03 - http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=04009123684+9+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
• Use of association funds relating to elections - Section 1363.04 (same as above)
• Enforcement of provisions of the election law - Section 1363.09 (same as above)
Without going into a great deal of detail, I will give you a basic description of the state required HOA election process:
1. Board sends out its election rules (should have been done a minimum of 30 days prior to the first election held after July 1, 2006).
2. Board solicits homeowners to run for current election.
3. Homeowners submit their names, whether they are existing Board members or new candidates.
4. Board chooses an Inspector of Election (either one or three). Inspector can be a homeowner, but absolutely can not be an existing Board member (or any family member), a candidate for election to the Board (or any family member), or the current management company. Inspector can be an outside entity hired to conduct the election. There is a great deal of responsibility and liability placed upon the Inspector. As such, in my opinion, any individual homeowner who accepts this position is taking their lives in their own hands.
5. After the Inspector is appointed, all election matters are now under that person's control. Neither the Board nor the management company can make a decision concerning the election. All decisions concerning the election are made by the Inspector.
6. From a list of owners within the association in good standing, the inspector makes a list of all eligible voters. The inspector also determines how many positions are to be elected (via the CC&R's and Bylaws), if cumulative voting is appropriate, and a number of other decisions.
7. The Inspector arranges to have ballots sent to all eligible voters 30 days prior to the election. The ballot consists of three envelopes and the ballot itself.
A. Ballot is inserted inside Secret Ballot envelope.
B. Secret Ballot envelope is inserted inside Return Mail envelope. This envelope must have both the printed name and the signature of the homeowner voting.
C. Return Mail envelope is inserted inside Outgoing Mail envelope which is what is sent to each individual homeowner at their address of record.
8. Election day, the Inspector determines whether a quorum of ballots and/or homeowners is present to hold the election. If Quorum is met, the election is held. If Quorum is not met, then a reconvened meeting must be held no sooner than 5 days, and no later than 30 days later. The reconvened quorum requirements are 50% of what the original requirements were.
9. After the election has been held and finalized, the results of the election must be conveyed to all members of the association within 15 days.
It sounds to me like the card you received in the mail could possibly be this last item? If so, is it possible that you received the original ballot in the mail but did not know what it was and threw it out?
If you have specific questions, you may contact me at my Email address below.
Thanks, Bill Mills
Service 1st Mediation & Ombudsman Services
Posted Aug 13 2007 10:55PM CEST
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Bill Mills
(View Profile)
San clemente, California |
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